IP: When & How did you get involved with Mail-Art?

 

IP: When & How did you get involved with Mail-Art?

RJ: I actually documented that with a complete book:

https://www.academia.edu/6739422/25_YEARS_in_Mail_Art_overview_for_Ruud_Janssens_activities_2005

the book is available for free and contains all the details. Maybe read it first and then come with specific questions for details?

IP: Can you explain the history/conception of the IUOMA (International Union of Mail-Artists)

 

IP: Can you explain the history/conception of the IUOMA (International Union of Mail-Artists)

RJ: That has been documenten quite well on:

https://iuoma-network.ning.com/

Somehow people always think that if a group of artists work together that then there must automatically be some kind of organisation that coordinates it all. Well, in mail art there are many groups working together. These groups themselves also work together, but there is NO organisation that arranges all the things that go on in the mail art network. The I.U.O.M.A. is the Union that mail artists can become a member of. The Union has no rules. Everybody who is active in mail art and hears about the Union can become a member just by saying so.

In 1988 the idea of the IUOMA was born. I invented this name and made forms for people to become a member of this (fictive) union. About 300 mail artists reacted in a year, and official membership cards were made, even a official Union Magazine was published. Anybody who was a member of the Union could also claim a special function within the Union.

Even today, people still join the Union. And somehow it gives power, to say that YOU are a member of the International Union too.  It is just the center for archiving all the things that are going on. But I am not in control of the Union. I just invented it. And to make it official, I made myself General-President of this Union. Sure was impressive when I travelled to the USSR in 1991 and went to visit some friends there who were also members of this Union........

IP: What is your Name?

 

IP: What is your Name?

RJ: Did I understand the question right? My name is Ruud Janssen. Some people call me with other names, but I am quite happy with this one.  My birthname was Rudolf, so that is written in the official documents.

IP: Do you have a favourite Mail Art Memory?

 

RJ: When you consider I started with connecting with the network in 1980 and was writing letters as a child in the 70-ies, you will realize that there are a lot of memories. A favourite one is a difficult selection because The memories of the past are growing with every year that passes by.

IP: What is the Future of Mail-Art?

RJ: The future of ART is always great. New people come every year and are creative enough to be inspired about what is going on in the world and react to that in a creative way.

The future of Mail is another matter. The original network started with correspondance of letters, postcards, and even objects sent by mail.

Later on the FAX arrived, the E-mail, and the HTTP-protocol in 1993 made all these websites possible. Is it still Mail?

It depends on the definition. When you transform it to Communication Art, it has a bright future. It you are a purist and you insist on a postage stamp being put on the work, well, you have a problem since the postal system is collapsing when it comes to the individual communication. Commercial activities still stimulate the postal services, but the Posta Office if far gone. Only the transport of objects will survive. The communication of letters, words, images and videos, that all has gone digital and you can send it from anywhere to anyone that is connected to the WWW.  I tend to be a purist, and only traditional mail is what mattered. We are now in a new millennium where the digital impact will need a reaction from artists in a different way.

IP: What made you want to document interviews with mail artists?

RJ: In the year I started with these mail-interviews I realized I only knew very little details about the people I was communicating with. I have read some interviews others did and decided to go for a search for more information. In the 90-ies also Internet and e-mail was starting to grow. So I made the concept that questions and answers could be sent in any communication-form choosen bij the sender or receiver. That meant some questions were even asked by telephone, and some answers where handed over when I was meeting the interviewed person. The communication-process was part of the mail-interview.

The project itself grew. I started with one interview. And because the time-factor was involved, I had time for starting several interviews simultaneously. It was an intense period of searching for information, but also I realize the documenting of the complete process. First with small interview booklets in small editions where mail-artists could ask for, Later also on websites and in bookform.

The essence was I wanted to gather more information that wasn’t there. I wanted to get the people that I was communicating with and were out there.  I felt I had a shortage of information and needed to will the void with data also for the network.

In the bookforms the newsletter that was made during that period is also published. Lots of information in the mail-interview. Some people outside the network even found it worth wile to write a thesis about the project.

KN : Do you still have your P.O. Box?

Sadly no. Last year the postal office made some changes and moved the location of my P.O. Box 1055 to the outher sides of the city. It means I couldn't just 'walk by', but I hade to travel by bicycle for 15 minutes to collect the mail in the P.O. Box.

I tried that for some months, but then came the next problem. The price to pay for the Postal Office box went up again quite a bit, and more then 300 euro's is way too much to have that service.  So I quite the P.O. Box somewhere in February 2025.

Also the Domainname www.iuoma.org got way to expensive, so it is another thing I had to let go, When you get older you realize you don't need to continue all there is, and you are more at ease in taking the right decisions.

K : I love you new drawings. Do you have any you want to sell?

 Yes, sometimes I get q trequest that someone wants to buy a drawing. When we agree on which one, the price and the sendingconditions, the sale is made.

I don't actively seek out to sell them, but when I don;t have too much emotional connection to a drawing someone else may buy it and collect it or hang it on a wall.

PS : What will happen to your mail-art archive?

For the time being I like to have the Mail-Art archive close to me. There are some parts though that are passed on to other parties. My complete corresepondence with mail-artists in Eastern Europe I have donated to the Schwerin Museum in Germany. They have a permament collection of mail-art (have a look at: https://www.museum-schwerin.de/en/collection-research/research/archive/

Because in the last decades a lot of books have been published on the subject of Mail-Art in small editions, these books form an important part of the archive. I also actively publish books by myse;f and others to make sure information is written down and available for others to research. See the bookstore at:  http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/iuoma

PV : Why do you have this ongoing Interview Blog. Shouldn't an interview end somehow?

RJ : Over the years I did several interview, and yes they all ended. This blog was started a decade ago because I noticed a lot of questions keep coming back. Not that I always give the same answer, but somehow I liked the idea to keep track of the answers through such a blog.

So that is the reason I still keep this blog alive. An Interview that also forms an archive of my answers. I guess if someone asks me a duplicate question again after many years, my answer will alter every time I try to find the words. That is what art is about. Your views change with the knowledge and perspective you have.

CN : For you what is mail art in your thinking? And if today the artists are integrated postaleiro the same network?

RJ : Mail-Art in essence is the need to communicate in a creative way, but also to share what you make with someone you choose. These days the Internet has taken over, but the digital communication is different tp the traditioal one. A letter or an enveloppe last longer, take more time to make and to travel, and might survive decades and centuries. With the digital communication you never know how long the answers and visuals will survive. Do you still have your first e-mails?  Do you still have  access to your first build website?

There is always 'The Network' and 'Your Network' ; they are not the same. When we speak of The Network, we mean the same people, but the perception of your own network is different for everybody him/her-self.  You are the center of your network while the network itself has no center. That is a major difference. Probaly also the reason why some don't like the IUOMA-concept since there I created one network with a sollid basis. But also here it is that everybody perceives the IUOMA in their own view, and that is o.k. and even meant to be so.

CN : What is the importance of Rubberstamp Archive?

RJ : The importance today is that is a collection that has grown over the years. I started sending out the TAM rubberstamp sheets back in 1983, and that is now over 33 years ago. As a mail-art project is the longest run project and it still going on.

The main collection exists of prints by mail-artists that use rubberstamps i their works. So all I asked was an imprint on a piece of paper, and am storing that away for safe keeping.

That is collection is interesting shows the exhibitions so far:

1996 : Stamp Art Gallery in San Francisco

2004 : L-Gallery in Moscow

2010 : Stendhal Gallery in New York

So, in the near future another exhibition will take place soon, but always just with a selection from the archive. There are just too many sheets in the collection to exhibit them all. Although that will be the final goal, and the place where that will be might even get the offer to curate the final collection.

CN : How did you get involved with mail art?

RJ : In 1980 I started with sending out envelopes into the network. Some years before I probably saw an exhibition of Donals Evans works in a locat exhibition and as a child I was fascinated by mail and postage. So the creativity and the fascinations joined together and made me the interest for the network and exploring it.

MTS : Do you know what happened to Norman Solomon?

Ruud Janssen: Actually I don't know what happened to him. I was in the middle of the interview when I got the e-mail he died, and it was from Mrs. Postcard. Not sure if it was from his wife or not since that was the only thing i heard.  I knew he had cancer, and not long to live, but more details are not known. His wife went back to japan. I heard he had a son, but never got any knews from the family.  So on facebook I started to ask questions too, maybe to find out what happened even a decade or so later.....?

for the complete interview, have a look at :  http://www.iuoma.org/postcard.html

Tanja Vos: Do you still answer questions?

Hi Tanja,
As you see the answer is YES.
with best wishes,
Ruud Janssen

Guroga: How you knew the mail art?

Guroga: How you knew the mail art?

Ruud Janssen: I was doing mail-art before I knew there was a network. In the 70-ies doing correspondence and in 1980 discovered the network. Have been part of that network ever since. Guy Bleus (Belgium) sent me a first addresslist and there I started contacting the network.....

Guroga: What mean the mail art in your life?

Guroga: What mean the mail art in your life?

Ruud Janssen: Mail-Art has changed my life. A lot of essential changes have come from impulses from the network. My life is global and I am in contact with all kind of corners in the world.

DVS : How would you describe the 6th generation of Mail-Artists?

RJ : In the text I wrote before with the 5 generations of mail-artists I already mentioned there would come such a generation. I believe the Social networks have given us this sixth generation. Artists that work online and discover through online publications the Mail-Art works and the Mail-Art network. They research and send out their first snail-mail. Normally the sent work is documented online, the rceiver gets a digital message, and the surprise is to see the original work posted by the receiver on a blog, website or social network. So instead of moving from analog to digital, the 6th generation discovers analog in the digital world.

Tracy Herrity : Is there something like a "Free Gift?"

Tracy Herrity: Your Mail-Interview Project prompted me to send out a few questions of my own! I would like to ask you if you have read Marcel Mauss "The Gift" which discusses wether you can truly give a gift freely. I would like to find out your opinion on "a free gift".

Ruud Janssen: No, I haven't read that specific book. A gift is never free. It costs other things. It is exchange of energy. receive it & pass on or return. In physics there is the law that explains that energy never gets lost. The energy you invest in a gift (it isn't free, you did something to get that gift....) is passed on to the receiver. He can react on that, pass it on, or even ignore it. But somehow it will cause something for sure.

New Question from Tracy Herrity - UK

Johnny Boy : Social Networking and potentials?

JB : You have been one of the first mail artists to embrace computer communication. How do you judge all this frantic social networking going on? Do you think that we have fulfilled all the potentials one could barely foresee 15 years ago?

RJ : You have seen nothing yet. The Social Network I created on NING is a sample of what can be done already. And Twitter and Google Wave (I am one of the first to get an account there from Google and am now exploring that search-engine / social networking / communication tool they have build). The communication has become global and instant. But when you are moving around the globe (I tend to be in other countries quite a few times) it is amazing how your network joins you on your travels. The changes and potentials were obviously there already in the beginning of the 90-ies. Some of us (Mark Bloch, crackerjack kid, Charles François, David Cole, were already using computers for their communications. The speed and availabilities has become common these days, and that explains the easiness of which also the old and new generation of mail-artists use all of the new and all tools just to communicate in a creative way. The Eternal network has become a large community.

Johnny Boy : Average each month?

JB : In 1996 you were sending out an average of about 150 pieces of mail art each month. how about now?

RJ : That all depends on what month it is. Could be very little or about hundred pieces. The communication-forms that have come as extra absorb the most time. I get about 700 e-mails a days through which I have to filter. Not just spam, but also because of the many websites and blogs that are online and generate e-mail. If you calculate that, about 20,000 pieces of information coming at you in a month. It might drive one crazy when you don’t select. The snail-mail has become scarce. A pile of letters each day still get in, and yes, I do my best to reply to them, but like most can imagine, time to do all is difficult to find.

Johnny Boy : What is different now?

JB : Now you seem to be very active again. Are there any differences in your approach to networking between your activity in the '80s and '90s and now?

RJ : The differences in approach and activity lies mostly in the intergration of Internet in our daily life. The snail-mail is still slow but essential to the mail-art network. It seems the mail-artists that were so against the Internet gradually saw that they can use the new communication-tools to their advantage. A lot of old-times joined in on the IUOMA platform (see: http://iuoma-network.ning.com/ ) that I started only a year ago (on November 13th 2008). Soon it will exist only one year and already it has 710+ members online. Also newcomers that through Internet discover the mail-art network and love the idea of exchanging art from artist to artist. The essence of networking has not really changed. Only projects can be done on different communication-platforms as well. Paper documentations are replaced by digital websites. Magazines are replaced by blogs with more participants. Even my old TAM-Bulletin (with news about mail-art projets that circulated in the 80-ies and 90-ies) is replaced by a blog with mail-art projects (see: http://mailartprojects.blogspot.com/ ) where 96 authors write and publish the mail-art projects. It has 60+ visits each days and distributes the mail-art projects information with only one click worldwide.

Johnny Boy : Did you withdrew from the network?

JB : In the late 1990s, when I first joined the mail art network, you gradually withdrew from it, only keeping in touch with a handful of close friends. Why did you do that? Did the diatribe surrounding the Faker play a role in this?

RJ : I didn’t withdrew quite like that. I stayed active with quite a few, but the Internet and the Fluxus Heidelberg Center took a lot of our time and energy too. Not sure what you mean with ‘the Faker’and what aspect you asking here about. For most people who will read this they have no idea of what you are talking about. New borders within mail-art were being researched and found. Actually the Mail-Art Interview project was going on since 1996 and that meant I was focusing on that 80+ mail-artists that I interviewed. So in these late 90-ies I was quite active but with a smaller and selective group. Those were the most hectic times and I published ten thousands of booklets which were distributed too. Sending less mail-art only came about in the beginning of this new century. Also because of my moving to Breda, new Job, Marriage, just to name a few major changes in my life.

Johnny Boy : What about Fluxus Heidelberg Center?

JB : When did you and your partner Litsa Spathi come up with the Fluxus Heidelberg monicker, and why? What was the motivation behind it?

RJ : It is strange that you name it a monicker. For us the Fluxus Heidelberg Center is an important center. The collection of Fluxus Books we have in the center is larger than most libraries we know. We are also in contact with a larger group that are following the spirits of Fluxus. Also the center publishes its own documents in book form as well as in digital form. Litsa Spathi is the creator of Fluxus Heidelberg Center. I was in Heidelberg when we started to work on that. I was honored with the title co-founder. Litsa has been active in that area for a long time. Together we have conceived lots of Fluxus Scores and Performance that we actually did in Germany, Netherlands and Greece. The first 3 years were even published in a book. The motivation is simple. We both follow the spirits of Fluxus. We are (were) in contact with members of the first generation like Dick Higgins, Alison Knowles, Yoko Ono, Ray Johnson, Norman Solomon, Ken Friedman, and also the active bunch that associates themselves with the new Fluxus and Fluxlist. Litsa has her own Fluxlist Europe and actually a lot more activities with het Fluxus Poetry.

The motivation was to be short to find a platform to gather all the activities and information’s we were confronted with. Performances in the digital ages means that you have to include the new digital techniques too. Performances with camera’s, videos, all kind of new media in performances has quite an impact. Mail-Art and Fluxus are two different things. Both avoid the normal ways that the Artworld wants us to go, that is one of the aspects that makes them work together sometimes.

Karys Llewellyn: Do you still get a 'buzz' when you receive a letter in the post?

KL : Do you still get a 'buzz' when you receive a letter in the post?

RJ : In general YES. Someone has spent time and money of getting that mail to me. It is worth a lot that someone takes that effort.

Karys Llewellyn: How do you see Mail Art progressing or evolving in the next 20 years?

KL : How do you see Mail Art progressing or evolving in the next 20 years?

RJ : In 20 years there can happen a lot. The Internet and Social Network have taken over the function of communication. The traditional mail is just for sending originals which are authentic. A colourcard can also be published on the Internet, sent by e-mail, etc... But what you can't send is 3D, smell, structures on paper.

I have been working with computers all my life. As a 17 year old student learned to programm computers back in the 70-ies (see http://www.facebook.com/ruud.janssen?ref=profile#/album.php?aid=91495&id=501252989 for some historic photo's). But besides this interest in computers there was always my interest in creating art on paper, canvas, etc... Even today, I always enjoy painting. And the handpainted envelopse I send out (must be tenthousands over all these decades) I still can't send in a digital way.

So in 20 years the mail-art will be a selective group that still can afford the postage and want to share things that can't be digitized. It all depends on the survival of the postal system. Decades ago every country had their own Postal Office System. Nowadays it has to become independent and commercial. The postal rates and regulations have become quite stricts. Playing with that new system is a challenge on its own again. When a computer cancels an envelope strange things happen. I've tried a few things the last years as well. But sending a plastic bottle through the mail is a difficult task today.

The "progressing and evolving' part in your question is difficult. Mail-Art always uses the system as it evolves and tests the possibilities. New projects are possible when more communication systems are used. My latest contribution is a card that I will have to print out myself and actually is published before it is printed and sent. The timefactor is a part in mail-at projects as well. Some things go slow by snail-mail, but communication by e-mail goes in a second. These two can join and develope new concepts. A sample is the IUOMA-Novel that is a single project by an UK Mail-Artist (see: http://iuoma-network.ning.com/group/iuomanovel). 44 Mail-Artists are discussing the project with 261 comments - status of today). One single book is travelling the world ans has to become one book that returns in the UK. On January 30th 2009 the project started and it still is being followed by all these people who wonder what the next step will be. Now that is a project that is quite specific and fits the timeframe we live in.

There are more samples like these. creative people always use the new ways the communication system offers. An analogue camera that travels and causes photos to be taken by playes in the project or accidental exposures caused by postal workers (a project I took part in years ago). Or the IUOMA-Ning platform that in 7 months reached 500 members and was published in a hardcopy book though on-demand publishing. There are so many new things developed that can be integrated in mail-art. We will see what the next 20 years bring. I only hope I will be alive then as well.

Karys Llewellyn: What are your thoughts on forms of modern communications tools such as social networking sites, email and text message?

KL: What are your thoughts on forms of modern communications tools such as social networking sites, email and text message?

RJ : I have always experimented with the new forms of communication. In the 80-ies I was working with a BBS (Bulletin Board Service) to explore the digital distribution of a mail-art project magazine. The last years I have again experimented with a blog with over 90 authors that publish their mail-art projects online (see: http://www.mailartprojects.blogspot.com/). Besides the live environment I also archive al the mail-art projects information on a website in the form of .PDF files to ensure that the information will be available for many years (see: http://www.iuoma.org/mailartprojectsarchive.html). The websites come and go, the digital files that archived well will live a bit longer. It is my concern that the digital information will vanish when we don't archive things well enough.

Social Networking Sites are a relative new thing. On http://iuoma-network.ning.com/ I am experimenting with a platform where the IUOMA was brought to life again. Over 600 IUOMA-members are now lively exchanging information and are starting projects. Digital and paper projects are integrated and that works fascinatingly well. A new thing that happens is that a new generation learns about mail-art though these websites and networks. The strat with a digital address to fins a real address. Again here I document the developement of these digital explorations in the form of books. The first 500 IUOMA-members were documented in a digital LuLu publication that can be transformed in ea book when someone just orders the book. The digital version of the book is available for free (hundreds have downloaded the book). The hardcopy versiopn only has been printed a few times for members. They will survive the coming decades for sure which I can't say for the Social Networks who will 'explode' one of these days because commercial aspects of websites are coming to the surface.

Karys Llewellyn: Do you think the role of the postal system has changed in the last few decades?

KL : Do you think the role of the postal system has changed in the last few decades?

RJ : The last few dacades? That is from about 1989 to 2009. The postal system used to deliver a lot of paper, that has been reduced quite a bit. The digital flow of information has increased more than the decrease of paper flow. It is so easy to produce something on a computer and to send it to just anybody or to post it on a blog and/or forum.

The paperwork is still the thing I treasure most. But somehow the things I get in ternd to be less and smaller. The cost of sending out mail-art in the traditional way has increased a lot. No large envelopes. No catalogues in the form of thick books. Those are changes that I see over these last decades.

The role of the postal system is just to transport the paperwork and packages, We still need that for the oldfashioned mail-art. I enjoy the play of computerwork and paperwork. Printing digital work on paper, digitizing paperwork into digital archives. To sen a book to someone these days is a cosly business. It explains why catalogues in the form of boopklets has been transformed into blogs with digital information. I prefer the booklets, but know the moneyfactor is a disturbing one.

Karys Llewellyn: What is it about Mail-Art, compared to other mediums of art, that keeps you participating?

KL: What is it about Mail-Art, compared to other mediums of art, that keeps you participating?

RJ: In Mail-Art all kind of media come together. So Mail-Art çould be called a specific medium as well, but with all the communicationforms at hand nowadays, there is so much to experiment.... The concept is that communication is the medium you use in your art. Mail, the traditional form of sending something from one person to another has now also the e-mail form. But websites generate e-mails (like social networks do) and the play with communication has speeded up a lot. The letter takes its time. When I send something out, the response might take days, weeks or months. That is always a surprise. Communication brings you new ideas.

In Mail-Art one normally takes a break now and then. Always answering mail is a hard job. But once you get a suprise and/or interesting piece in your hand, you are eager to send out something again.

So to make it short in answering: the surprise and interaction with other artists that work on a non-commercial basis in mail-art. The exchange of art, time and ideas.